Transcript: Swamp Notes — Biden and Trump’s immigration duel

This is an audio transcript of the FT News Briefing podcast episode: Swamp Notes: Biden and Trump’s immigration duel

Marc Filippino
Donald Trump has visited the US-Mexico border a lot, both as president and as a presidential candidate.

Donald Trump voice clip
Build that wall! Build that wall! (crowd chanting)

Marc Filippino
He was back there this week, and this time he had some company.

Joe Biden voice clip
Folks, it’s time for us to move on. We can’t wait any longer.

Marc Filippino
This is Swamp Notes, the weekly podcast from the FT News Briefing, where we talk about all of the things happening in the 2024 US presidential election. I’m Marc Filippino, and this week we’re asking: why are Biden and Trump so focused on immigration? Here with me to discuss is Myles McCormick. He’s the FT’s Houston correspondent. Hi, Myles.

Myles McCormick
Hey, Marc.

Marc Filippino
We’ve also got Derek Brower, the FT’s US political news editor. Hi, Derek.

Derek Brower
Hi, Marc.

Marc Filippino
All right. So let’s start with the news. The two presidential frontrunners, Donald Trump and incumbent Joe Biden, both visited the US-Mexico border on Thursday. They were in different parts, but they were still both on the border. Myles, you were down there, too. So tell us what’s happening there that these two bitter rivals were coordinating their travel schedules?

Myles McCormick
Yeah. So it was super interesting. I mean, you had kind of duelling speeches from these two presidential rivals. Biden was down in Brownsville, which is where I am. I came down to follow him and speak to his local people here. And whereas Trump went to Eagle Pass, 200 miles along the border from here. But the fact that they were both making competing speeches on the same day about this topic really underlines how much of a political issue the border and immigration has become. And just to kind of take a step back and explain the situation, the number of people crossing America’s southern frontier — which is vast, it’s almost 2,000 miles long — has surged under Joe Biden’s presidency. Few reasons for this: when Joe Biden took office, we were coming out of Covid and the border had been largely shuttered during Covid. But Biden also did come in and immediately seek to revoke some of Donald Trump’s more draconian policies, which Republicans say has kind of encouraged more people to make the often treacherous journey into the US. But there’s also a lot of kind of external, exogenous factors that have driven up the numbers. There’s been a lot of unrest across Latin America. There’s been an upsurge in numbers, in particular from Venezuela. But the fact is that numbers have gone up under Joe Biden. They reached an annual record last year. The number of encounters on the border hit 2.4mn. That’s up from about 1.7mn in the first year of Biden’s presidency, and even the monthly encounters hit a record level as recently as December.

Marc Filippino
OK, Derek, so we just heard Myles explain why we might be seeing this surge. But immigration isn’t just a problem for the president to solve. There, if I understand correctly, are some debates playing out in Congress right now too. Right?

Derek Brower
Yeah, we are seeing it play out in Congress. And it’s really fascinating because immigration is really important to the Republicans, or so they say, for electoral reasons, but also ideological reasons. They believe in a tighter border, I think it’s safe to say, than Democrats do. But it’s also become ensnared in other kind of pressing issues in Congress, including Ukraine funding. And that’s where it becomes really fascinating, especially for an international audience. So just to back up, Joe Biden wants to increase funding to help Ukraine in its war against Russian invasion. There is a lot of support for that in Congress, except the Republicans know that they need to vote for it as well, and have used Joe Biden’s desire for this as a way to try and get something they want, which is a tighter border or a crackdown on immigration, especially at the southern border. And so what happened was the Republicans in the House, which is controlled by Republicans, they refused to vote on a bill that would have provided funding for Ukraine and funding for the border, and that bill had been agreed in the Senate by both Democrats and Republicans. It was a rare example of a bipartisan deal that was going to fix a problem on both sides of the aisle. Donald Trump told Republicans in the House not even to vote on it. He does not want this issue at the border fixed. He wants to use this issue as a way to campaign through coming months ahead of the general election. That is one of the most important issues for him, and it does not serve his purpose to have the border fixed.

Marc Filippino
Yeah, that’s pretty clear. We saw Donald Trump pretty eager to highlight this issue and blame the president when he visited the border this week.

Donald Trump voice clip
. . . now the United States is being overrun by the Biden migrant crime. It’s a new form of a vicious violation to our country. It’s migrant crime. We call it Biden . . . 

Marc Filippino
And now, for his part, Biden was really keen to explain why the bipartisan border bill fell through.

Joe Biden voice clip
Here’s what I would say to Mr Trump. Instead of playing politics with the issue, instead of telling members of Congress to block this legislation, join me or I’ll join you in telling the Congress to pass this bipartisan border security bill. We can do it together.

Marc Filippino
So, Myles, as we pointed out already, you’re in Brownsville, Texas, following Biden. Which of these two sentiments that we just heard is resonating more with voters there?

Myles McCormick
I suppose the former, to some extent. I mean, you heard quite a contrast there in terms of the two types of rhetoric. You had Donald Trump kind of leaning on this really kind of emotive style of language. You heard words like overrun, like invasion, violation, crime, migrant crime. Whereas the Biden message is very much more one of: let’s come together, big, happy family, Republicans and Democrats working together to get something over the line. It’s really interesting because Brownsville, like Eagle Pass where Trump is as well, but Brownsville in particular is a Democratic stronghold in kind of a wash of Reds Republican territory. But people are increasingly frustrated with the situation at the border and therefore with Joe Biden. And their argument is quite distinct from some of the rhetorical flourishes of Trump and some of that high drama in DC. Communities down here are quite international. I mean, they live lives that involve crossing the border on a regular basis, but that has now become quite difficult for them. The day-to-day regular crossings from Brownsville into Matamoros, which is the twin Mexican city on the other side of the river, have become really difficult. I mean, queues back up for hours. So for people here, the frustration lies in the fact that because there is this crisis at the border, they’re not able to live their day-to-day lives. And many of them that traditionally would have been firmly in the Democrat camp are talking about how they’re going to vote for Donald Trump because they need change. They need something different to happen so that they can get back to their day-to-day existence of jumping back and forth across the border as they always have done.

Marc Filippino
So, guys, Biden is kind of taking a risk here. At least that’s the way that I’m seeing it. He’s taking a risk in Trump’s turf. Speaking about one of Trump’s best electoral issues. I mean, Trump really gets his base fired up about immigration. Derek, do you also see it as a risk for Biden?

Derek Brower
It is a risk for Biden. He is facing a risk by trying to play, as you say, in Trump’s playground. Gallup put out a recent poll that said immigration was now the most important issue for voters. I mean, there are basically four different themes that are really important in this election. One of them is abortion. One of them is inflation. One of them is insurrection. And the other one is immigration. And on those four things, it seems that Biden is probably winning on abortion. Americans seem to be not very happy with Biden’s economy at the moment, but maybe that’ll change. You know that, that’s up for grabs. On insurrection, Biden seems to be winning on that one because he’s able to project this message that democracy is at stake. But the other one is immigration and immigration, because of the surging numbers, seems to be a very promising, fruitful area for Trump to try to exploit. So for Trump to win on immigration, which may decide the election for him, he really, really has to amp up the rhetoric, which is what he’s doing. His language is full of talk of immigrants tainting the blood of America. He’s tapping into kind of nativist ideas. He has to do that because this is the area that he thinks is most likely to win him the White House again in November.

Marc Filippino
All right, guys, we’re going to take a quick break. And when we come back we’re going to do Exit Poll.

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[BEHIND THE MONEY TRAILER PLAYING]

Marc Filippino
We are back with Exit Poll, where we talk about something that didn’t happen on the campaign trail, and we apply just the most rigorous political analysis to it. Today we’re talking about dogs, which are man’s best friend, right? Right? Well, I guess it kind of depends on the man, because this week, news broke that President Biden’s German shepherd, Commander, bit US Secret Service personnel at least 24 times. And that number doesn’t even include incidents involving other White House staff. The best part about this story is that a reporter filed a Freedom of Information Act to get this number, like they had to request it through like legal means. Myles, Derek: Commander’s behaviour — good or bad for the president?

Myles McCormick
Well, I mean, I suppose you could argue that Commander taking a more confrontational, more aggressive approach might play well for Biden. Yeah, yeah, yeah (inaudible). It’s his dog taking the attack lines that Republicans often accuse Biden of not taking himself.

Derek Brower
I have a different view on this. First of all, let me praise the intrepid, not to say, dogged determination (laughter) of the reporter to do this Freedom of Information request. But I think, you know, I’m a dog guy. I have a dog. My dog is, I think, probably my best friend. And I’ve been raised with dogs. And not to stretch the puns too far, as a ...

Marc Filippino
Stretch them, Derek. Stretch them.

Derek Brower
. . . as a Brit, half-Brit, half-Canadian, I don’t actually have a dog in this fight, this electoral fight. What I do have is views on how people look after their dogs and how they treat them. And dogs biting people, it’s not a dog problem, it’s a dog owner problem. And Biden may or may not be in charge of the border. He may or may not have the mental acuity to fight this election, et cetera. I’m not weighing in on that at all, but I would say he’s not a good dog owner. Fact.

Marc Filippino
Well, Derek, frankly, I think your bark may be worse than your bite, but (laughter) I want to thank our guests. Myles McCormick. He’s the FT’s Houston correspondent. Thanks for being on the show this week, Myles.

Myles McCormick
Thanks very much, Marc.

Marc Filippino
And we have Derek Brower. He’s our US political news editor and dog enthusiast. Thanks, Derek.

Derek Brower
Thanks, Marc.

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Marc Filippino
All right. This is Swap Notes, the US politics show from the FT News Briefing. It’s produced and mixed by Ethan Plotkin. It’s also produced by Lauren Fedor and Sonja Hutson. Special thanks to Pierre Nicholson. I’m your host, Marc Filippino. Our executive producer is Topher Forhecz, and Cheryl Brumley is the FT’s global head of audio. Check back next week for more US political analysis from the Financial Times.

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