Transcript: Samara Joy, 24-year-old jazz sensation

This is an audio transcript of the Life and Art from FT Weekend podcast episode: ‘Samara Joy, 24-year-old jazz sensation’

Lilah Raptopoulos
This is Life and Art from FT Weekend. I’m Lilah Raptopoulos.

[‘SWEET PUMPKIN’, BY SAMARA JOY, PLAYING]

Lilah Raptopoulos
You are hearing the voice of Samara Joy via her TikTok channel. Samara is 24 years old. She’s a three-time Grammy Award winner, most recently for the single “Tight”.

[‘TIGHT’, BY SAMARA JOY, PLAYING]

Lilah Raptopoulos
This week, she is kicking off a four-month tour in Canada, Europe and the West Coast of the US and all that is quite a place to be just two years out of college. I recently interviewed Samara for a profile of her for our luxury magazine, HTSI, and we started with the fact that Samara’s only the second jazz artist in history to win the coveted Grammy for Best New Artist.

Is that right? The second or the third?

Samara Joy
The second, yes. The first was Esperanza Spalding against Justin Bieber and Drake.

Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah, nice. OK, nice. So you’re from New York, from the Bronx, born and raised. You come from a very musical family. Can you tell me about your journey of finding jazz as a singer?

Samara Joy
Mm-hmm. Yes. I grew up already kind of listening to genres of music that involved acoustic instruments, like artists like pianist George Duke and like, Lily Hathaway, and Jill Scott. But for the most part, I hadn’t really listened to jazz growing up, and I only encountered it when I was in high school and a teacher of mine, actually, she taught only band students, and I was in the vocal class, and she was like, OK, I’m going to grab a couple vocal students to sing some songs with the band. And I sang two jazz songs, and those are the only two that I knew, and I don’t remember being intrigued enough to go further, honestly. I was like, OK, I’m going to do these songs nice. But I hadn’t really listened. With enough intent to decide whether or not I wanted it to be a career. I wasn’t thinking about that, until I got to college. I went to SUNY Purchase, and I heard Sarah Vaughan and Abbey Lincoln and Betty Carter, and I was like, I love how unique everybody’s voice is, you know? Because it’s like, not everybody has everything, but you can grab all this wonderful inspiration from each singer. And I found that I could just keep adding to myself, you know, different interpretation skills and range. And I have ideas, my ears are opening up even more compared to when I was younger.

Lilah Raptopoulos
What do you . . . can you say a little bit more about what you mean by that? Sort of as you like, kind of folding in those elements.

Samara Joy
So I find that before I got to Purchase, I was still singing like myself, but I had never trained my voice. I had listened to music and listened to singers and wanted to copy them and imitate them. But my voice was not developed, and I find that I didn’t have a lot of control over it and or control over the ideas that I wanted to express. I feel like I got that awareness when I got to college.

Lilah Raptopoulos
And we should say that you’re so, I said that you come from a very musical family, but by that I mean your paternal grandparents ...

Samara Joy
My paternal grandparents were the founders of a gospel group in Philadelphia.

Lilah Raptopoulos
And your father is a vocalist and a bass player. I heard you say that you felt that jazz was like a real home for your voice. What do you mean when you say that?

Samara Joy
I mean with jazz, I felt like I didn’t necessarily have to fit into a box. It definitely taught me, I guess, boundaries and taste and that kind of stuff. When to fully let it out, when to draw it back in. As far as dynamics and, you know, power when it comes to my voice. But yeah, I felt like I could sing the way that I was singing, you know, and not have to maybe, discard my influences in order to do it.

Lilah Raptopoulos
Right. Yeah, amazing. I saw you perform here last night, and we were all, like, packed in tight . . . (laughter) 

Samara Joy
Oh, no. I’m sorry.

Lilah Raptopoulos
Oh, no. It was all part of the vibe. It was good. You were wearing a bright pink dress. You were, like, very comfortable on stage, telling stories between songs. It felt like we were all kind of on this journey with you, learning about you through each song.

Samara Joy
I’m glad.

Lilah Raptopoulos
It felt very intimate. And at one point in the show, towards the end, you were singing “Lush Life”.

[‘LUSH LIFE’, BY SAMARA JOY, PLAYING]

Lilah Raptopoulos
. . . Which you put out recently as a single, also Grammy-nominated.

[‘LUSH LIFE’, BY SAMARA JOY, PLAYING]

Lilah Raptopoulos
Can you tell me quickly about that song?

Samara Joy
Yes. So that was written by wonderful pianist, and Duke Ellington’s right hand, Billy Strayhorn when he was 19 years old. And I find that it is . . . it’s such a rough song, you know, especially for somebody who wrote it at 19 talking about the fact that the love that you thought you had is not there anymore, you know. Life is lonely again, and only last year everything seemed so short. You know, things are slowly breaking down and falling apart right before your very eyes. And by the end of the song, you realise that that’s probably the only true love you’ll ever have, you know.

Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah, was.

Samara Joy
Crazy.

Lilah Raptopoulos
When you went to sing that song, your whole body changed. Like it felt like your posture changed. The way you moved your face changed. It really felt like you were being yourself, but also embodying somebody. To create, like, the sound and the feeling that you wanted. I found that very moving. And I want to know what you . . . what were you doing there? Can you kind of take me, walk me through that performance?

Samara Joy
I’m glad that . . . I don’t realise, you know, when things change like that, but I know I don’t want to smile through it because it’s not a happy song. And I think the story itself and the way that we arranged it, it requires all of you, you know. You can’t back away from it because maybe I don’t want to feel like that or even try to imagine what somebody in that position would feel like. But it requires you to be open and to be fully immersed in the story that you’re trying to tell. I feel like that song in particular.

Lilah Raptopoulos
So are you . . . as you like when that song is next, do you sort of feel the feeling that, you know, is, yeah what’s going through your line.  

Samara Joy
I try to imagine what it would be like to be in that position, because I don’t know if I’ve ever felt that kind of heart-wrenching, you know, deep longing of, like, wanting to give up on love and wanting to live a life of being alone. But I want to imagine and maybe method act a little bit and try to imagine what it would be like to feel that way. And hopefully that informs my interpretation of it when I sing it. 

[BEHIND THE MONEY TRAILER PLAYING]

Lilah Raptopoulos
I want it to go back to one thing about your songwriting process that you seem to like writing over . . . sort of writing original lyrics over famous compositions. And we were talking a lot about your lyrics over Charles Mingus’s ...

Samara Joy . . . 
“Reincarnation of a Lovebird”.

Lilah Raptopoulos
. . . “Reincarnation”, yeah, “of a Lovebird”. You said on stage it took you a year.

Samara Joy
Yes.

Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah. So can you tell me a little bit about that creative process for you? Maybe we can take “Reincarnation of a Lovebird”. 

Samara Joy
For me, when I’m writing lyrics, I try to imagine first the story that I want to tell. Usually things flow pretty naturally after that. I found, and I find that I like to listen to the melody over and over and over and over and over again. So even when I’m not listening to it, a word will pop up into my head or a sentence that matches with the melody line that I’m trying to get. But I find that a lot of times it’s just me rewinding back and like, trying to write out the first idea that comes to mind and then kind of fine-tuning it after. My teacher called it like “word vomit” or something like that. You just, like, write and just keep going and just keep going and just let it all out until something materialises. And so I like pen and paper. So I just do that. It comes out. Write it again.

Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah. Can we listen to a little bit of it?

Samara Joy
Sure. I’m really recording it.

Lilah Raptopoulos
Let me find it. Oh, no. I started a little bit late. Let me play what I have.

[CLIP FROM SAMARA JOY’S LIVE PERFORMANCE PLAYING]

Lilah Raptopoulos
I was sitting across from a father and daughter last night at the Blue Note, and he said that he played with your dad in New York. But that he remembered that you would come in occasionally with your dad and he would sing back-up vocals, things like that. And he said that he remembered that you had a very singular voice, that he rarely heard voices like yours. He said that for us old-timers, she makes us feel that the future is bright.

Samara Joy
Oh, wow. That’s very sweet.

Lilah Raptopoulos
I wonder how it feels to hear that sort of thing. From an old, older generations of . . . yeah.

Samara Joy
. . . of people. It makes me feel glad. It makes me feel grateful that they feel that way. The music industry (chuckles) the music industry is one that, you know, it’s, can be tedious to be a part of. But I’m glad to be giving any semblance of hope, you know, to anybody, you know, who loves music and who wants to see it continue in this form.

Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah. Relatedly, I’ve been thinking about, like, the role that you play, like jazz used to be a thing that everybody listened to. As I understand it, I mean, I don’t know about that, but it felt . . . It feels like the jazz singers that influenced you were mainstream.

Samara Joy
And oddly, like, audiences with them ...

Lilah Raptopoulos
They had big audiences. Yeah, they had sort of like, everybody had their albums. I want to ask you about bringing jazz back to a mainstream audience. You’re one of the few that’s broken through, especially for young people. What does that feel like? Is there like a responsibility that comes with that? Do you even agree with that? I guess how do you find your way, you know, as a jazz performer now? What do you say? 

Samara Joy
I can’t deny that there has been some breakthrough. And you know, I’ve been labelled as a Gen Z TikTok star and TikTok to Grammys and stuff. I would say that I try not to feel a responsibility to that, because my responsibility first and foremost is making sure that I’m making music that I like and that I love, and that I’m proud to share with people because I love it so much. And so if the focus then becomes I have to do something to stay relevant and stay important to young audiences, it can be draining I think. Because you have to compromise what you do in order to keep people’s attention. And everybody’s different, everybody has different tastes and what they like and what they don’t like. And so you keep chasing after that and before you know it, you hate what you’re doing. And so I think the focus and the goal for me is to make sure that what I do, I love it and I’m proud of it.

Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah. Totally. It reminds me of something you said last night, which is that, you’ve learned a lot over the past few years about how to speak up for yourself, realise what you want and have good people around you that can help fulfil your vision. What are . . . what types of decisions are those? Like? How do you, you know ...

Samara Joy
I mean, it can come down to the kind of set list that I have. And the schedule, how many gigs I do or don’t want to do. Photo shoots, (laughter) even though I don’t do those very often.

Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah, yeah. Also, like 24. I mean, on stage, he said something like really getting up there and everybody laughed like, it’s like everyone’s like, oh my gosh, he’s 24. But like, you’re also 24. I don’t know, do you like, how do you sit with that?

Samara Joy
Well, I was just 21, so this feels, it honestly, at first it felt daunting, but I’m like, girl, that is so 2002 to be scared of your 30s, like, come on. So, yeah, I have to. And but there was also pressure. You’re young. You have to do this while you’re young. You’re . . . Tour as much as you want. Do all of the things. Do it. And so I want to cherish every moment of this you know, because it may or may not always be like this. But I . . . as oh my gosh, which one, which one do I choose. So I choose to take it all in and just work, work, work work work. Or do I actually live life with a little bit of balance, you know, and practice that, you know, so I can actually do it for a long time if this is really what I love. Do I love the attention for a second or do I love what I’m doing? You know, regardless.

Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah, I think a lot of us can relate to the feeling that you need some greater purpose other than fame or being seen or being heard or, you know, to really feel like, excited to wake up and do it every day. Is there like a filter that you put things through?

Samara Joy
To decide about?

Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah, yeah, to decide. Like, is this like, this is like a thing that I want to do versus the thing that I don’t.

Samara Joy
Is it going to help me grow? I think that’s what I . . . the frame or the question that I ask when I decide certain things or decide whether or not to do or to do something or whether or not to. Is it going to help me grow? Do I like it? You know, do I enjoy doing this? And is it going to help me grow?

Lilah Raptopoulos
If you were to give advice to people who are just getting into jazz who, like, have, maybe listen to Miles Davis or listen to Ella Fitzgerald and are kind of coming to it again through you, what should they do? How should they explore it?

Samara Joy
Mmm. I mean, you’re probably going to start with me. (laughter) So whatever you find that you really like about me, whether it’s the repertoire of the songs that I sing or the instrumentation, you like, the way the piano sounds, find some pianists that you like. You know, there’s Erroll Garner, Wynton Kelly, Duke Ellington. You like bigger, you know, ensembles, you like stuff that maybe it’s like almost symphonic, you can listen to Nat King Cole, you know. Get into whatever you like and don’t feel pressured to know everything, you know, or do research on. You know, just find something that you like integrated into your daily listening with everything else you know, and you might just enjoy it.

Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Samara Joy
Give it a chance.

Lilah Raptopoulos
Thank you so much. It was such a pleasure.

Samara Joy
Thank you. Likewise. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

Lilah Raptopoulos
That’s the show. Thank you for listening to Life and Art from FT Weekend. I’ve linked to my profile of Samara in the show notes. That link will get you past the paywall on FT.com, and I’ve also link to places you can find Samara’s work. Also in the show notes are discounts for a subscription to the Financial Times and ways to stay in touch with me on email and Instagram. I love hearing from you.

I’m Lilah Raptopoulos and here is my talented team. Katya Kumkova is our senior producer. Lulu Smyth is our producer. Our sound engineers are Breen Turner and Sam Giovinco, with original music by Metaphor Music. Topher Forhecz is our executive producer and our global head of audio is Cheryl Brumley. Have a wonderful week and we’ll find each other again on Friday.

[MUSIC PLAYING]