Transcript: ‘Love Lies Bleeding’ with director Rose Glass

This is an audio transcript of the Life and Art from FT Weekend podcast episode: ‘“Love Lies Bleeding” with director Rose Glass’

Lilah Raptopoulos
Welcome to Life and Art from FT Weekend. I’m Lilah Raptopoulos. The film Love Lies Bleeding is not your average anything, but I will try to describe it. It’s set in the 1980s somewhere in New Mexico. Kristen Stewart plays the reclusive manager of a gym, and she falls for a bodybuilder who just came to town, played by Katy O’Brian. As the two of them fall in love, they also get tangled in a web of deceit, passion and crime. It’s a noir, but it’s also surreal. There are guns and bugs and sex and implausible muscles, and in the centre there’s this twisted romance. 

[LOVE LIES BLEEDING TRAILER PLAYING]

Lilah Raptopoulos
It is also all the brainchild of its director and co-writer, Rose Glass. This is Rose’s second feature film. Her first was Saint Maud from 2019. And as our film critic put it then in his review, some debuts tug at your sleeve. Others take your arm off. Rose is my guest. She’s with me in the New York studio today. 

Rose Glass
That’s a nice one. 

Lilah Raptopoulos
Rose. Hi. Welcome to the show. 

Rose Glass
Hi. Thanks for having me. 

Lilah Raptopoulos
Thanks for being here. It was a compliment. 

Rose Glass
Yes. Lovely compliment. 

Lilah Raptopoulos
So I did my very best to try to explain what Love Lies Bleeding was about . . .  

Rose Glass
You did way better job than I ever do if I get asked to summarise. I just say, stuff happens. And the girls

Lilah Raptopoulos
That’s good. But the bad thing is, I was going to ask you to do the same thing. (Laughter)

Rose Glass
Oh, damn it. 

Lilah Raptopoulos
I would love to just know. It doesn’t have to be the plot, but I’d love to know what it’s about to you. 

Rose Glass
I think when I had to email Kristen for the first time to try and explain to her what it was, I just said, it’s like, crime, romance, thriller, dark comedy, farce, surreal thing. So something in that sort of territory. And yeah, it’s a love story between these two women who I guess seem very different from the outset. Like, obviously one of them is an aspiring bodybuilder. Kristen’s character, like, works in a gym but kind of like sitting on her ass behind a desk all day sort of thing. And, you know, she’s kind of pathetically trying and struggling and failing to quit smoking. And I guess I’ve probably just fascinated by the idea of what it would take to actually get yourself looking like a professional bodybuilder and the sort of psychological traits it might take to sort of get yourself looking like that. And that just seemed like, a love story between two people from those sort of slightly opposite spectrums of ambition, motivation, life, might be sort of psychologically interesting, kind of, territory.

Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah. I have to say, in both of your films, Saint Maud and this, I felt so physically uncomfortable in my body that I somehow, like, wanted to scratch my skin off and also laugh at the same time. (Laughter)

Rose Glass
Oh, thank you.

Lilah Raptopoulos
I felt like Love Lies Bleeding was somehow, like, sexy and disgusting at the same time. I just never really have felt that quite that level of nausea and anxiety and absurdity and sometimes sweetness. (Laughter)

Rose Glass
Yeah, for me, I thought Saint Maud was kind of funny, but, you know, people thought it was just incredibly depressing. But there’s humour in there. So for this one, I’m kind of like from my perspective, I’m like, it’s always a problem. But I guess the, yeah, the contradictory stuff is just interesting. And I’d like to think that that’s something that people could maybe wrap their heads around quite easily, I think. 

Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah, sexy and disgusting felt like a pairing in some way in this film. 

Rose Glass
Well, I guess it’s like, because it’s a love story, I guess, me and Weronika who I co-wrote it with, we sort of knew that we wanted to do the kind of love story which isn’t just, you know, it’s obviously far from a one-dimensional kind of thing. Love can bring out the best but also the worst in people. I guess the extremes that people can be led to in order to get what they want or to pursue their loves and ambitions can lead people to do great things but also awful shitty, kind of like selfish things. And it’s kind of fun to sort of watch people navigate that. And I think that probably has something to do with the sort of sexy, grotesque thing as well. I guess one person’s sexy is another person’s grotesque, I don’t know. I mean, just the human body is just kind of fun, weird. And I guess that’s why I was interested in looking at a story where one character is a bodybuilder pushing her body to that kind of extreme. 

[MUSIC PLAYING]

Lilah Raptopoulos
You mentioned Weronika. I just want to call out that that’s Weronika Tofilska who you co-wrote the film with. The other thing I love about your films, both of them, is that you got them made. (Laughter)

Rose Glass
Me too. 

Lilah Raptopoulos
They’re just both great, weird things that are also very charming. And it feels hard to make great, weird things. And I’m wondering if I can ask you a little bit about the process.

Rose Glass
Sure.

Lilah Raptopoulos
So first of all, do you write the script and then get funding? Or did you get funding and then write the script? How does it work?

Rose Glass
You kind of go through like development. With both Saint Maud and this, we come up with like the initial concept and then took it to my producers, Oliver Kassman and Andrea Cornwell, who produced both these films. At first, we just kind of talk between us about what the thing is and, you know, write like, a treatment, maybe I’ll just, which is just like a few pages, pictures, a little summary, just to kind of try and get it into someone’s head. And then we took that to Film4 for those in the UK and they sign us up for development, so they kind of . . . You have a contract, so you’re being kind of paid. But your . . . the film itself hasn’t been greenlit. So then you write the script. Saint Maud, I did by myself. This one, I did with Weronika. Periodically, you’re kind of like sending drafts in to producers. Mostly, I was in quite a fortunate position where they kind of leave you to it a bit, and then as you’re writing it, you’re kind of getting a bit closer to sort of having discussions about, OK, well, how much do we think this is gonna cost to make? Who’s gonna be in it? Like, it becomes a sort of shifting thing that gradually starts to come together. 

Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah. So what was the germ of the thing that you were sort of initially pitching and then you went in sort of toying with? 

Rose Glass
I think I went to Weronika because I basically decided I want to try co-writing, and I think it was already a love story, but it was about, you know, a bodybuilder who has some kind of mental, physical kind of unravelling as they’re training for a competition. And maybe in their pursuit of kind of their bodybuilding ambitions ends up kind of being derailed. So that was the sort of skeleton. And then me and Weronika kind of hashed it out a bit more and then . . . But I think before that, like the very initial thing was just really wanting to tell a story about a woman who was trying to become a bodybuilder. That relationship with your self and your body, I just thought was quite interesting. 

Lilah Raptopoulos
Right. What is it about the relationship between ourselves and our bodies that is interesting? 

Rose Glass
I guess the weird contradiction of how we all experience reality so subjectively and privately from our own little tiny bubbles, and within our brains, and our emotions and thoughts can sort of be so far-reaching and kind of grand. And yet we’re all confined to these same weird, fleshy packages. Our bodies can be playgrounds for either of those things. They can be awful and go wrong and be messy and embarrassing and inelegant, and equally can be incredibly powerful, sensual, exciting, beautiful. And how we think about a lot of those things ourselves and how we view our selves dictates that a lot. And, they’re fun to look at. (Laughter)

Lilah Raptopoulos
Totally. 

Rose Glass
In all guises. 

Lilah Raptopoulos
OK. So you have these themes that you want to play with while you’re writing the script. And then I’m curious at what point the tone starts to build. Like, there’s a very strong vibe in this movie, and I wonder, is that happening also while you’re writing? 

Rose Glass
I mean, that was kind of not fully formed, but there was sort of more of that in place in the beginning, before there was the story, I guess. It was sort of like when I went to Weronika, I think it was like, this is the rough story, and this is kind of, you know, we want the world to feel sweaty and kind of visceral and heightened and kind of noir-ish or something. And, you wanted it to be quite sort of bombastic and pulpy and kind of take a big swing and see what happens. 

Lilah Raptopoulos
Was there a way that you had to pitch or frame the film to get funding for it? 

Rose Glass
I mean, this probably says more about me, but to me I was like, this is my version of trying to do a really commercial film. Like, come on, there’s girls and guns and sex in it, what else do people want? In the film, as much as you talk about this gross stuff, it’s still a crime thriller noir kind of thing, and I think leans into quite a lot of classic Hollywood-y tropes. For all its weirdness, there’s a lot in it that’s using quite familiar ingredients, but it’s hopefully cooking up something a bit different with it. So who knows if all the financiers got the film they were expecting? Because for me, as far as I was concerned, this was pretty much from the outset, the thing that we set out to do, and everyone was fortunately very supportive and encouraging about it. 

Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah, cool. I was wondering if you could bring us into a scene, because I read an interview where you were talking about Saint Maud, a scene in Saint Maud where Maud is picking the scab from her hand, and the scab holds a metaphor, but that you said that you really enjoyed filming that scene because having this whole team of professionals, like, help you film a girl, pick a scab off her hand was like this dream come true. 

Rose Glass
Yeah, exactly, because I’ve made it. Hooray! 

Lilah Raptopoulos
(Laughter) Did you feel that at any point when you were filming Love Lies Bleeding? 

Rose Glass
Sure. I mean, like, it’s annoying. There’s, like, there’s some sort of, like, spoiler stuff towards the end, which, like, I won’t say, but if you’ve seen the film, you know which bit I’m talking about. I mean, having legends like Ed Harris in the film, some of the stuff that particularly ends up happening to him later on, I was like, I can’t believe he’s letting us do this. So filming that was very surreal. I don’t know, like, the bodybuilding competition probably. It was so much fun to shoot because we basically staged, like, a mini competition and go all in. You know, pretty much all, I think the other bodybuilders that you see on stage with Katy were all professionals and we had like lots of cameras set up at once because again, there’s not much time to film it. So you’re sort of, it’s all a bit mad, but we we’re basically just having to, over and over again, sort of get these amazing men and women to do these bodybuilding line-ups, and just kind of like oiling them all up in between takes and, you know, amazing, like tacky lights flashing, but, you know, had like a playlist going and everyone kind of really getting into it. It was some great fun. Yeah. 

Lilah Raptopoulos
There’s a scene where Katy O’Brian’s character vomits up Kristen Stewart’s character . . . 

Rose Glass
Oh yeah, during the bodybuilding competition . . .  

Lilah Raptopoulos
During the bodybuilding competition . . .

Rose Glass
It’s an eventful few minutes. 

Lilah Raptopoulos
How do you direct something like that? 

Rose Glass
In bits, I guess. I mean, Katy was great doing that because we, I mean, obviously when she’s doing it, it’s just her with dots on her face, kind of, on stage. And it’s basically, yeah, she basically, like, births Kristen up from her stomach and out of her mouth. And Kristen kind of appears in this sort of membrane-y, amniotic sac kind of thing. She just had to imagine what it was like, I guess, and then pretend to do it. (Laughter) But you had to get quite specific about, OK, now, now the head is in your mouth, so you should, like, look down at your mouth and then, OK, maybe hang a bit like, but you sort of have to gag but with your mouth shut because it’s blocked. It’s not just like throwing up. So she has to do her whole thing, and then Time Based Arts or the effects company do all this magic so that we sort of, she appears to be giving birth out of her mouth. But then, then Kristen landing on the ground was basically just Kristen kind of stood in a paddling pool, and then we sort of, like, doused her in lube, I think, or something slippery like that. And then she sort of had to be kind of held by a stunt double and then just get kind of dropped into frame. So she lands like a little baby horse or something being born. So it was a little, yeah. Just . . . 

Lilah Raptopoulos
Just a day. (Laughter) Just a regular day . . . 

Rose Glass
Yeah, that’s what I see about making films like this. It just so often just . . . it’ll become so normalised. And you all know the script really well. So it’s, OK, well this is the . . . OK. Well, this is the day where she throws up Kristen. That’s fine. And then he eats a bug here and then he does that. Good, good.

Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah. I would love to ask you a little bit about your background in film. Like, what made you want to be a filmmaker? 

Rose Glass
I mean, I think I did sort of decided that I, well, I thought it was something I want to do, like the the idea occurred to me quite, like, really young. Once I sort of realised that that was a job that exists that somebody can do, I think it just sort of seemed like the most fun, cool job in the world. So it was just like, well, let me do that. So, you know, I was making little films with the video camera and like sort of doing stop-motion films. And then, I don’t know, obsessively watching all the kind of like Lord of the Rings DVD extra features and being like, oh, and it’s basically realising like what went into making a film. It just sort of seems, I don’t know, just really exciting. 

Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah. Were there things as you were sort of making little movies by yourself and watching this behind-the-scenes DVDs, and then you went to film school and then you started making like, real things, were there . . . did you find that there was like things that you were going towards or there was like a thread or themes that you’ve really kept kind of coming back at?

Rose Glass
There, I mean, there tended to always be somewhat surreal kind of things happening. Or I think, I don’t think I ever was like, I want to make realistic, naturalistic dramas. It was always stuff which was like slightly surreal, slightly farcical, getting people to dress up in stupid costumes, sort of parodies as well, I guess. Like before I went, before I went to film school, so just as like a young teenager, it was always like making silly, like mockumentaries or kind of impersonating Tarantino films or zombie films or some were always people with guns or with blood and all, you know, guns, bloods, surreal stuff. And then probably then when I went to film school, it got a little bit more serious. But yeah, it’s usually people kind of having strange hallucinations and reality and fantasy kind of getting a bit blurred. 

Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah. Something that I really liked in both of your films about the people and the worlds is it sort of feels like the people become whatever it is they’re feeling. (Laughter) In sort of physical way . . . 

Rose Glass
Quite literal, really.

Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah, yeah, like, but you’re really sort of experiencing the world how you’re imagining them feeling it. And I was looking at my notes through Love Lies Bleeding and I just said like, so sad, so mad, so hot. Like everything was the most intense version of the thing. 

Rose Glass
I’m just very on the nose. (Laughter) I think that’s what I like about films is that it’s sort of you can take whatever is a very intimate, insular feeling or emotion and make it somehow visual. You know, it’s a sort of poetic visual kind of, medium. So I guess that’s. Yeah. 

Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah. Right.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

So just changing gears here a little, I would love to ask you about what might be next. I know you might not want to talk exactly about what you’re working on, but I imagine that after making two successful films, that gives you some more freedom for whatever you might want to do next. 

Rose Glass
I mean, I sort of feel like I’m just in the most kind of privileged, fortunate position I could dream of being in, which maybe is embarrassing to say, but yeah, it’s wonderful to . . . I’m just trying to sort of not overthink any of it because yes, it’s very liberating and very exciting. That said, I haven’t got anything set up. Maybe I’ll start doing it and they’ll be like, no, don’t do that. But yeah, I’m just sort of writing something which I feel kind of stuck getting into gear soon, which I’m really excited about. And it’s sort of one I’ve been thinking about for ages. Yeah, I’m excited about it. Hopefully, though, hopefully people will trust me to do it again. I’m very happy to be in a position where I think, hopefully I can get away with just kind of making whatever the weird thing is next. I am very lucky and very happy to be doing it. 

Lilah Raptopoulos
Right. I guess, you know, without spoiling it, I’m curious what you would want an audience member to feel when they’re watching Love Lies Bleeding or when they’re leaving. 

Rose Glass
I mean, I just hope people have a lot of fun watching it. I know that sounds sort of glib, but really, it’s true. Like I really just genuinely, I mean, when we were writing it, we’re just trying to entertain ourselves as much as we could. I mean, there’s the sort of like good, bad, beautiful, ugly sort of thing. I guess it’s debatable whether it’s a happy, sad ending. But I’m hoping even though there’s like darkness to it, people come out of it feeling pretty good. 

Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah. Yeah.

Rose Glass
I hope that makes people feel good. 

Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah. For how uncomfortable I felt during the film, I was shocked by how great I felt when I left, I could say. 

Rose Glass
Hey, good.

Lilah Raptopoulos
My last question I ask everybody, but I’m curious from you: just when you feel most creatively fulfilled through the whole process of making the film, when do you really feel like? 

Rose Glass
There’s usually kind of a sort of magical window in each, the writing and then the shooting and the editing process. I think I do love post-production, like I said, because you’re, it’s actually coming together in front of you. But, I think it’s actually probably on set when it’s going well and you’re trying stuff out that maybe is going a little bit off script, but it’s all kind of gelling or working. Or even if it’s not, I don’t know if there’s just a . . . I don’t know how to say this without sounding all wanky and pretentious. But you know, there’s just this little kind of energy or whatever. And when it’s like that, it does sort of feel like you’re just a little kind of like playing basically. It does. I don’t know if there’s a connection between that feeling and probably the sort of feeling that you get when you’re just first trying out making films or short films or whatever. So it’s when you feel like you’re playing, when it feels like that, that’s the . . . that feels great. And I have that on this one in the writing as well, because writing is one of my best friends. 

Lilah Raptopoulos
At what point in the writing did it feel like playing? 

Rose Glass
Most, a lot of the writing, to be honest. Like, particularly I think probably before, because basically me and Weronika kind of like mapped out the whole story first, like on just little like, index cards. And that process took ages. So that process was just the most fun because . . . and it’s just literally having me just sitting in a room for like just weeks on end, kind of mapping out every little scene, but basically just you sort of . . . And that, doing that by yourself is quite a different experience. And I’m sort of missing it greatly now that I’m writing this next one by myself. So I think maybe we’ll team up again. (Laughter) But there’s lots of moments. It’s kind of, they’re throughout the whole process, to be honest. It’s like constantly going in and out of, you know, just logistics, stress and then it, you know, hopefully semi-regular intervals. You’ll suddenly look around and realise you’re having, you know, the most fun ever. And then it’s all just a bit silly and great. 

Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah. Love Lies Bleeding is in theatres now in the US, and it will be in theatres in the UK on May 3rd. Rose, thank you so much for being on the show. 

Rose Glass
It’s very nice to talk to you. 

Lilah Raptopoulos
Nice talking to you too.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

That’s the show. Thank you for listening to Life and Art from FT Weekend. Take a read through the show notes. We have linked to everything mentioned today, and all of our links that take you to the Financial Times will get you past the paywall. Also in the show notes is a discount to a subscription to the FT and ways to stay in touch with me and the show on email and Instagram.

I’m Lilah Raptopoulos and here is my incredible team. Katya Kumkova is our senior producer. Lulu Smyth is our producer. Zach St Louis is our contributing producer and VIP of this episode. Our sound engineers for this episode are Sam Giovinco and Simon Panayi, with original music by Metaphor Music. Topher Forhecz is our executive producer and our global head of audio is Cheryl Brumley. Have a lovely week and we will find each other again on Friday.