What Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn are promising for the Christmas Brexit election
The FT's UK political commentator Robert Shrimsley and deputy opinion editor Miranda Green draw up a political Christmas card - but who will be on top of the tree? The Conservatives or Labour
Produced by Tom Hannen. Edited by Petros Gioumpasis and Tom Hannen. Studio by Petros Gioumpasis and Rod Fitzgerald
Transcript
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MIRANDA GREEN: Are we ready? Election 2019, yule be sorry. So Robert, what we're going to do is have a lovely Christmas tree, because this is a festive election--
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: OK.
MIRANDA GREEN: --around which the nation has joyfully gathered for the last few weeks.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Right.
MIRANDA GREEN: Remember that, joy? Well, here we go.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Someone told me about it once.
MIRANDA GREEN: So here's our Christmas cheer.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: That is a good Christmas tree.
MIRANDA GREEN: Thank you.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: No, that is--
MIRANDA GREEN: You see?
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: --definitely a very good Christmas tree.
MIRANDA GREEN: Yeah. So the question is, on this festive election, what are the presents under the tree? What sort of voter patterns could adorn the victory of one party or the other? And who's going to end up in pole position as fairy on the top of the tree?
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Yes.
MIRANDA GREEN: OK?
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: OK.
MIRANDA GREEN: So--
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: So I start with the presents then.
MIRANDA GREEN: Yeah.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: What did you have in mind?
MIRANDA GREEN: So obviously, the biggest present that Conservative supporters want is Brexit delivered.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Let's just get it done, OK? Let's just get it done.
MIRANDA GREEN: Spooky.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Yes.
MIRANDA GREEN: And then you have some people over here for whom--
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Brexit-- let's not get it done, presumably?
MIRANDA GREEN: Yeah. So we got some orange Lib Dems and some red Labour Party people. That's the biggest present under the tree, no Brexit and the SNP, of course.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: No, but that's-- sorry, that's not the Labour position. The Labour position is it could be Brexit still, or it could not be Brexit.
MIRANDA GREEN: OK, so in fact--
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Mystery Brexit.
MIRANDA GREEN: So you open the Labour Party box--
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Yes.
MIRANDA GREEN: --one of two things could be inside it.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Yes.
MIRANDA GREEN: So there are several options.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: It is a mystery Brexit.
MIRANDA GREEN: OK. And let's do--
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: This is not the Brexit I ordered online.
MIRANDA GREEN: Did you keep the receipt? And here's the SNP also wanting no Brexit. But what else? What else? What else?
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Well--
MIRANDA GREEN: Should we have a--
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: The end of austerity is the big--
MIRANDA GREEN: Oh, yeah. OK.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Everybody is promising the end of austerity. But there is a Tory end of austerity, which is probably sort of quite a small present.
MIRANDA GREEN: Yes.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: And then there is a Labour end of austerity, which is enormous.
MIRANDA GREEN: Yeah, with a great big bow on it.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Yes. There is a Lib Dem end of austerity which is bigger than the Tory one, but smaller than the Labour one, of course--
MIRANDA GREEN: OK, I'll put it here.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: --the three days end of austerity.
MIRANDA GREEN: Yeah. OK, OK. Colour that one in.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Now, I must admit. At the start of this election, I thought environmental policies were going to be one of the big concentrating issues, defining issues of the contest. They are in terms of the debate, the dog that hasn't really barked all that much, which isn't to say that it won't affect voters--
MIRANDA GREEN: Right.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: --particularly younger voters when they come to the polls. And for those who are most agitated about the environment, the Labour Party are offering undoubtedly the biggest goodie. They are essentially promising to decarbonize the economy by around 2030. 2030 is not a hard and fast date. But the way they're talking is to achieve the bulk of the decarbonization by 2030. Lib Dems I think is 2045. And the Tories are 2050.
MIRANDA GREEN: It's a bit weird, actually. I think that the whole conversation about the environment and about the climate emergency has become a bit of a bidding war on dates.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Yes.
MIRANDA GREEN: Like, my date's earlier than yours, as if there are no other issues about making these huge changes to the economy.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Yes, although, when Boris Johnson talks about it--
MIRANDA GREEN: What's my symbol? Am I doing another present for this?
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: What's the Extinction Rebellion logo? That sort of--
MIRANDA GREEN: Let's do a bauble.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: A bauble, yes.
MIRANDA GREEN: Let's do an XR bauble. Here we go. I'll have a couple of them over here.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: It's super glued to the tree.
MIRANDA GREEN: Yes, that's right. And then the elves have super glued themselves to the tree.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Yes.
MIRANDA GREEN: And here's a little Tory Extinction Rebellion one as well, because everybody wants to be on this turf.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Interestingly, Boris Johnson, whenever he talks about the environment, he's much more interesting in talking about endangered species than he is about humanity as an endangered species. He's talking about protection of rhinos and wild animals and also a little bit about electric cars. He doesn't talk about the environment as a cohesive major issue.
MIRANDA GREEN: But that's interesting, though. Because actually the Conservative party's attempts to kind of green themselves over the last few years, which there was a lot of that under Michael Gove, it does have a heritage, right, because of it's conservation.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Conservation, yeah.
MIRANDA GREEN: So in a sense, you can sort of have a Tory green agenda that's more about that. Of course, the Labour green agenda is more about completely restructuring the economy. So they both have different versions of this environmentalism.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Yeah. I mean--
MIRANDA GREEN: And the Green Party is a bit irritated, because they're still stuck on 3% to 4%.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Yes.
MIRANDA GREEN: And they're like, we were here first. We were here first, which is--
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: It is interesting, the Conservatives. I mean, when Boris Johnson took over as leader, he did actually push Tory environmentalists into key jobs around the environment. So Theresa Villiers, who was a big figure in the Conservative environmental group, Zac Goldsmith, another big figure in the Conservative environmental group, they were both given jobs in the environment, space to push this forward.
And I think Boris Johnson thinks of himself in this way. Unfortunately, both Theresa Villiers and Zac Goldsmith are two of the most threatened MPs in this election. So it'll be interesting to see how green the Tories were if they stay in power, but lose those figures. There's no question it's an issue that hasn't dominated the debate as much as it perhaps could have done.
MIRANDA GREEN: No, I thought it would do, particularly because at the beginning of the campaign it looked as if it was the prism through which the Labour Party wanted its economic plans to be seen. I mean, they still talk about it. They talk about the Green New Deal, echoing the American Democrats. But it's not been as loud a conversation. And that is because so much of the domestic policy conversation has been about the NHS.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Yes.
MIRANDA GREEN: So I would say that inside this huge Labour party spending present or possibly, like, there's more, there's like a whole pile of presents of what it actually means. But I think that the issue of how much money the NHS gets and also staffing the NHS post-Brexit--
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Well, I mean, I think--
MIRANDA GREEN: --will really come to dominate.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: The difficult question I think for Labour, when they look back at this election if it doesn't go the right way for them, is the extent to which they sprayed out promises everywhere and to the extent to which that obscured the messages they really wanted to make, or whether they hit the right targets. So for example, the pledge to look after the WASPI women, that was after all the other pledges. On the other hand, if you're one of the WASPI women, that's going down quite well.
The pledge on tuition fees goes down quite well. Both of these policies are not quite as progressive as some of the other things they could be doing. They're sort of spraying different camps--
MIRANDA GREEN: That's right.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: --and seeing if we can build up a collection of policies. The danger is people look at it all and go, it's just not going to happen. You're not going to do it.
MIRANDA GREEN: What you have traditionally, and clearly the polling reflects this very, very dramatically, is that you have younger voters. This is a sort of trial of younger voters. They absolutely love the Labour Party. They love the Labour policies, as you've said, free tuition, all the rest of it. And sort of these are strings of voters.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Yeah. OK. All right, yes.
MIRANDA GREEN: And then you've got--
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: That's exactly what I thought when I saw it.
MIRANDA GREEN: Is that what you thought? And then you've got the older age groups who skew really dramatically. Every few years you go up the scale age, you've got this much thicker tinsel of, you know, Tory tinsel, which is older voters. And that WASPI women pledge I thought was extremely interesting from the Labour Party, because they're clearly trying to send at least some of these pensioners red. But will it work?
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: This is undoubtedly one of the really interesting tussles for policy makers in elections, which is it's well-known that older voters are more likely to vote. They're likely to turn out, and that they are ferociously protective of their benefits. Even people who really don't need some of the benefits, the so-called pensions triple lock, you know, the winter fuel allowance, things like this.
MIRANDA GREEN: Which the Conservative party has said they will save, to guarantee that income.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: You know, all sides are promising to keep all these policies, to not have any means testing along this line, while promising significant amounts of spending elsewhere. And the electoral logic of this is clear. On the other hand, if you are trying to say that policy has been too skewed to older voters and not focused enough on younger voters, it's a very curious way of going about it.
Because if you're saying, we don't have enough houses for the young, we don't have enough economic prospects for the young, you know, we're hitting them with debt on tuition fees and such like, you shouldn't be wasting money. I mean, wasting is a bit harsh. But you shouldn't be focusing so much money on other groups, some of whom don't need it. Now, with the Labour party, it's--
MIRANDA GREEN: So that's the voting chart, right?
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Yes.
MIRANDA GREEN: So you've got enormous numbers of young people voting Labour, enormous numbers of older people voting Tory. And then there's a crossover here in the 40s.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: And the problem for the Tories is that that red line is moving up there.
MIRANDA GREEN: That's right.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: So it's getting worse and worse for the Tories. They have a demographic reckoning coming their way if they don't sort themselves out. But you know, I do think for the Labour Party it is an easier position, especially if you are promising almost limitless spending.
Because their philosophical outlook is they want universal benefits. They believe in them, that, actually, there should be a common floor which everyone is entitled to a common set of benefits and a common set of values. The Conservatives don't take that view on lots of things. Therefore, their position about not means testing is much harder to explain.
MIRANDA GREEN: I'm going to add some houses as decorations on the Labour side.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Yes.
MIRANDA GREEN: Because, actually, you mentioned housing policy. And the Labour pledge is really quite extreme in terms of house building and also social housing.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Social housing building, yeah.
MIRANDA GREEN: And the Tory party interestingly, under Mrs May, had promised a lot more housing, partly to try and tempt in some of these younger groups that they desperately need if they're going to build a different voter base in the future beyond this election.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Yeah.
MIRANDA GREEN: But, actually, this Conservative manifesto goes back to not quite as many and also with an emphasis on private ownership, not on social housing. So it's sort of less on that, but it's a huge, huge issue. I mean, some would argue it's actually the policy priority that all the parties should be talking about, because it affects social mobility. It affects where your workforce can travel to and whether they can.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Children moving far from their families, et cetera. I agree with you totally. And I think particularly for the Conservatives it seems to me baffling that a party which is built around the belief that once people get assets and a stake in society they will turn Conservative that you are not spending a lot of time thinking about how to give these people a stake in society. And I mean, you touched on this I think correctly.
It's quite ironic that actually Theresa May's manifesto was much more effectively targeted at the so-called red wall of voters that Boris Johnson is going after. Because it was about giving more opportunities to people who have been left behind in the economic success of the last 20 years. Boris Johnson simply has pushed out almost any concrete policy that doesn't need to be there.
MIRANDA GREEN: But of course, in the middle of the 2017 campaign, Mrs May's whole efforts to re-establish, you know, a stronger majority for the Tories was exploded by having in the manifesto this pledge on funding social care, which became known as the dementia tax.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Yes.
MIRANDA GREEN: And that's put the Tory party of possibly ever trying to tackle this subject of intergenerational--
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Exactly.
MIRANDA GREEN: --fairness ever again, right?
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: They're just dodging it again in this manifesto. They say they're going to have to attempt to find cross-party view on it. We'll see, but they certainly weren't putting it in the manifesto. Although from what I understand, they do think sort of know what they're going to do. They just don't want to tell us yet--
MIRANDA GREEN: Oh, if that right?
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: --which is obviously tremendously encouraging news.
MIRANDA GREEN: Oh, great. Marvellous, Marvellous. I think you wanted to sort of bring up the idea that there might be some sort of Christmas ghosts hanging about.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Right, OK.
MIRANDA GREEN: Some things that--
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: So I'm going to attempt to draw a Christmas ghost--
MIRANDA GREEN: OK, go for it.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: --thereby, as usual, validating why you do all the drawing, and I do very little of it. And it isn't because I'm lazy. It's because I'm rubbish at drawing ghosts.
MIRANDA GREEN: So I'm going to call this one social care in fact.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: OK.
MIRANDA GREEN: Because it's the dog that didn't bark.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: So this to me--
MIRANDA GREEN: It's the ghost that didn't go, woo.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Tactical voting--
MIRANDA GREEN: Ah, yes.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: --is by far and away the biggest ghost, especially if you're Boris Johnson, biggest spectre haunting the Conservatives at the moment.
MIRANDA GREEN: Yeah.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: But the polls have not in a major way moved throughout this election. The Conservatives have got themselves up to about 42%, 43% of the vote, roughly where Theresa May was, consolidated the leave vote. And they haven't really shifted. Their vote has not gone down. The major story with the campaign has been the extent to which Labour has squeezed the Liberal Democrat vote. And it's got it down from around 16%, 17% at the start of the campaign to various polls put it between 12% and 11% now. And that's--
MIRANDA GREEN: Because the mystery Brexit present has proved enough to tempt people to take the big shiny package and not the very clear no Brexit, but with less of a chance of making a difference.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Yes, but also just the brutal realities of the first pass of the post system and where the Lib Dems are. What the Conservative strategy has been, as we've discussed a number of times, is to take the seats in the north from Labour, which are leave-y.
And there's quite a lot of anecdotal evidence to suggest that they're succeeding in this. And then just hold the line as much as they can in the south, give up as few seats as possible. That's the path to victory.
And in terms of the way they're structuring their campaign, you would have to say the Conservatives have done what they intended to do. We don't know if it's worked. But in terms of the structure of the campaign, they have run the campaign they wanted to run.
MIRANDA GREEN: And they've learned from both 2015 and 2017 when the last 10 days of the campaign involved telling a lot of voters who might be wavering between voting Conservative and Lib Dem down in the south, the southern seats, that it's not safe to. Because look who's the Labour leader. And that, unfortunately for the parties, worked quite well. There's been a last minute attempt to try and persuade Lib Dems to vote Labour and Labour to vote Lib Dems depending where they live.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Yeah.
MIRANDA GREEN: But actually what I think has happened is that's drawn attention to a lot of problems with the tactical voting as much as it's encouraged people to do so. And I have certainly noticed a lot of people saying how dare you try and morally blackmail me to vote the other way, Labour or Lib Dem. Because I actually have strong objections to that other part.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Yeah.
MIRANDA GREEN: So that kind of complementary voting pattern has kind of broken down.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Yeah, the nature of a squeeze is such that the more successful you are in squeezing a party, the harder it is to get the last part.
MIRANDA GREEN: Yeah.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Because the people who stay really feel it strongly. So you know, Lib Dems even at their lowest point they were on, what, about 7%, 8% of the vote. It was 8%.
MIRANDA GREEN: Yeah, in 2017, they were down to that sort of level. So they are up from 2017.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: You have to assume that that isn't going to fall any lower, that the absolute core of the Lib Dem vote is around 8%. They're currently on about 11%. I think it will go up from that, because more people like them than did at their lowest point.
So I don't know how much more the Lib Dem vote there is to squeeze nationally. The question and, I mean, the thing that really is going to determine the whole election-- and we said this at the very start of our artistry-- was that there are actually around 100 local contests which are going to decide it.
MIRANDA GREEN: Yeah, that's right.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: And they're all quite different in their way. And so even when you see these magnificent MRP polls telling you what's going to happen in each seat, even then I think one has to be bit careful. The truth is that small amounts of success in one constituency or another will make a difference. And they will become cumulative. And it's very risky to call it, because of that.
MIRANDA GREEN: So I'm just going to add to the Tory side, because we haven't talked about it today, although we have before beforehand, the UK. And I'm also going to add a tiny little package on the Lib Dem side marked UK. Because actually, the contest in Scotland, which is quite a lot of seats, it looks like actually saying we don't really want another disruptive referendum on Scottish independence is oddly playing quite well for the Conservative and the Lib Dems. And if there's pro-union tactical voting in Scotland, it could hold back the SNP a bit.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Yeah, I think you're definitely right. And I mean, the reports out of Scotland, one always has to be careful of these. But it was even from somebody, the senior figure in the SNP who was saying the same thing, that the Tory vote was holding up.
And it's the Labour vote that's being crushed. And that actually for those people who feel strongly about the union, the Tories still feel like the best bet unless there is a good reason to think the Lib Dems are a more effective challenger. And in a number of the seats held by the Tories, the Brexit party's pulled out, which also helps.
MIRANDA GREEN: Yeah, absolutely.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: So you know, I think it looks like the Tories are not going to have anything like as bad a night in Scotland as both of us, I think, would have predicted at the very start of the campaign. Now, every time we do these videos, I get an email from somebody who says we don't speak enough about Northern Ireland.
MIRANDA GREEN: OK, go on then.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: So Northern Ireland, it looked very interesting at the start of this campaign. Because there was some efforts to establish some tactical voting around Brexit there--
MIRANDA GREEN: Absolutely, a sort of remain alliance inside Belfast.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: --2 or 3 DUP seats that were being aggressively targeted by remain parties. And there was quite a lot of hope I think among remain parties that the DUP could be pushed out at least a couple of seats, including the seat held by Nigel Dodds, its leader in Parliament. I was talking to our correspondent who went over there the other day to look at what was happening. And her view was that actually the DUP is hanging on at the moment.
MIRANDA GREEN: Right. So that might give Boris Johnson an option-- tricky after a given deal basically betrayed the DUP, his Brexit exit deal. But we've discussed before that, should there be a hung parliament, Labour has a lot more options of people it can talk to than Boris Johnson if he ends up as the largest party, but just shy of a majority.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: So I want to spring a question to you. Because I've been thinking this a lot.
MIRANDA GREEN: All right.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: And I don't know the answer.
MIRANDA GREEN: And look what I've done up here, Robert, look. Look.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: I really like that.
MIRANDA GREEN: Will it be Boris on top of tree? Will it be Jeremy on top of the tree?
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Which actually feeds into the question I wanted to ask.
MIRANDA GREEN: OK.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: OK. So the line of expectation for this election lies with the Conservatives as the largest party, but possibly short of a majority or possibly with quite a good one. It's that valley we're looking into for where we think it's going to land, the landing zone as it were. Where do you think is the moment where Boris Johnson is out of power? Because if we work on the basis that 320 seats is just about a majority given all the quirks of the system, how far below that can he fall and actually hang on?
MIRANDA GREEN: I can't see how either the exit deal as it currently is survives him falling short and having to go back into discussions with the DUP. So then you open up the whole first stage of Brexit. And then the get Brexit done promise--
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Yeah, is gone.
MIRANDA GREEN: You know, it becomes morning mist really.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Well, I mean, the only way that could happen is if he agreed to put his deal to a referendum. I can't see how he gets a majority for his deal in Parliament if there is not a Conservative majority.
MIRANDA GREEN: Referendum.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: On the other hand, I also can't quite see how the Conservative party bites the bullet on this unless it just takes the view that it needs to do so to stay in power. I think it's possible for them to attempt to govern with something just short of a majority, trying to do deals on individual policies.
MIRANDA GREEN: Yes.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: But the question, I mean, at what--
MIRANDA GREEN: But we've had that, though.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: And it's been fun. It's been a blast.
MIRANDA GREEN: It's been exhausting for everyone.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: But I mean, if you toss up their votes, Labour could probably count on the SNP votes for most issues. It can count on Plaid Cymru. It can count on the Greens.
MIRANDA GREEN: The Green.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Green, yes. And you know, if any of the nationalist parties that will turn up win, it will get their support, too. Liberal Democrats would probably have to be on a case by case basis.
MIRANDA GREEN: Correct.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: But on a lot of Labour policies, their votes would line up with a Labour administration. The question is at what point it just becomes too rickety to manage.
MIRANDA GREEN: I don't know about a lot, by the way. Because somebody in either of these situations where you haven't got a secure majority, somebody's got to actually have a budget and pass it at some point. And that gets very, very tricky. Because the Labour package that they'd be putting in a budget is quite hard for other parties to support I would argue.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: But a budget is something you can negotiate on, you know? I wanted 5p on tax. OK, I'll take 4. And that's where you can have a conversation without breaking all principle.
MIRANDA GREEN: And of course, Boris Johnson has now said he won't be having a budget for quite a long time. So the distress presumably of poor old Sajid Javid, who's been wanting to have a budget for quite a long time-- and he's finally number 11.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: What do you reckon? What is the number of seats at which point Boris Johnson is definitely gone? I think he'd probably hang on down to about 315. Though how he'd get Brexit done, I don't know.
MIRANDA GREEN: Yeah. I don't feel in my bones that we're going to be in that kind of territory, but I may be wrong. I may be wrong.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: It is shocking to think that actually in 3 days time everything could be very, very clear, or we could be completely back to where we are. My instinct is that in 3 days time everything will be clear one way or another.
MIRANDA GREEN: Well, it's going to be very festive.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: But which of these angels will be above the tree? I don't know. They can't go into coalitions themselves, I suppose.
MIRANDA GREEN: No, no grand coalitions in this country.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: That's not going to work.
MIRANDA GREEN: I don't think so. But we'll have to see.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Excellent.
MIRANDA GREEN: Festive fun, I very much like your tactical voting spook.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Thank you.
MIRANDA GREEN: It's a high point of this whole exercise.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: I put a lot of effort into that.
MIRANDA GREEN: Yeah.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Well, next time we do this we'll know the answers.
MIRANDA GREEN: Yeah. That's right. See you back here at the other side.
ROBERT SHRIMSLEY: Yeah.